The Red Book of the Peoples of the Russian Empire

James A. Doyle
<jadoyle::ucdavis.edu>
USA -- Tuesday, November 06, 2001 at 04:43:25 (EET)

HAKAN ATASAGUN
Эstanbul/TURKЭYE -- Thursday, October 11, 2001 at 23:09:20 (EET)

Lynda D
<lyndesch::yahoo.com>
United States (Concord, Ca 94520) -- Friday, April 20, 2001 at 02:21:25 (EET)

Ps. what you told is just hypothetical stuff.... the origins of the Finns is a thing to be debated on for hundreds of years....just like the origin of all species.

Hoodoo is a folk version of Voodoo that focuses on the conjuring and herbal magic. Some wouldn't equate Voodoo with Hoodoo, but I'd have to say that hoodoo is a simplifed version of part of the Voodoo focusing on the magical. New Orleans Voodoo is a bridge between Haitian Voodoo and folk hoodoo. New Orleans Voodoo still has religious and ritual elements like Haitian Voodoo, but also puts strong emphasis on gris-gris and magic. New Orleans Voodoo seems to have been reinvigorated when St. Dominique revolted and the volders fled, many to French-speaking New Orleans.

Joe m
<JOEMER::Msn.com>
Phila.,Pa. U.S.A. -- Thursday, February 15, 2001 at 07:35:55 (EET)

Translated from the book. SUOMALAISET, OUTO POHJOLAN KANSA Rotuteoriat ja kansallinen identiteetti By Aira Kemilдinen SHS/Helsinki 1994
CHAPTER XIII, section 3 3. " On vaikeata kдsittдд, miksi suomalaiset kuuluisivat mongolilaiseen rotuun" (J. J. Mikkola, G. J. Ramstedt) (in english= "It is hard to understand, why the Finns would belong to the Mongolian race") This was said by J. J. Mikkola in the calendar of the Society of Public Education in which he wrote with the headline "Olemmeko mongoleja?" (eng. Are we mongols?) 57 When Finns do not look like the Japanese or the Mongols and when the Finns are infact big and the color of their hair and eyes and the structure of their bones is different and the Finnish language is distant from Mongolian then why would the Finns be Mongols? The researcher of Mongol languages G. J. Ramstedt thought the same way. The Mongols themself - he concluded - had said that there is no such thing as a non-mongolid human head, so everyone is a mongol! He did not like the thought that there were no other human races or language groups. It could have then been as reasonable to support the claim of Tibetians that the humans descent from an ancient Tibetian god and from a Monkey that resides in the mountains of Tibet. He also corrected the comprehensions over the appearance of mongols. Many mongols, especially in families of higher social position and people who spent a lot of time indoors were lighter skinned than southern-Europeans, although the Europeans are referred usually on being white and the mongols as yellow. Shouldn't the blond haired and blue-grey eyed nation of the North be quite the opposite to the mongols rather than a close relative? 58 In Finland the strangest comments about the race of te Finns were usually laughed at. In the 20th century this attitude changed dramatically. Arvi Grotenfelt had rejected the inequality of races, but not the mongolity of the Finns in 1905. During the next couple of years Mikkola and Ramstedt started an attack towards the mongol theory. They were prestigeous enough, because Mikkola was well acquinted with languages and an expert in Slavic languages and Ramstedt's specialty were the Mongols themselves.
The studies by Westerlund and Wilskman gave a result that invalidated the old theories concering the population of Finland. Yrjц Kajava had presented to the Duodecim society in 1914 that a large anthropological research should be started in Finland. 60 The beginnig of the study was slow due to the WW1, civil war in Finland and independence. At 1924 the Finnish Academy of Science selected a committee for the research of the racial characteristics of the Finns and granted them 19 000 marks for the research. The initiative to start the research was done by the Duodecim society in 1914 and it had hoped that the research would be started with the Finnish Society of Ancient monuments (Suomen Muinaismuistoyhdistys) and the Finno-Ugrian society. The following people were selected to the committee of 1924: Yrjц Kajava, doctor J. J. Karvonen, geographist J. G. Grдno and ethnologist U. T. Sirelius. The measurements were started with the aid of candidates of medicine and students around the country and the measurements were continued until the 1930's. Aroud 15 000 people were studied and the research was much wider than previously. Around 50 measurements were taken out of every person. Outside of Finland about half of the Livs were measured in 1937. In addition to this excavations were made in graveyards (like in Petsamo). As a result many series of studies were published. Until the year 1940 the goverment had given 500 000 marks for the research . 61 In the 1930's many researches were published from the field and the last were published in the 1950's. 62 At the same year as the previously mentioned research work was started J. J. Karvonen held a lecture at the spring meeting of the Duodecim society in 1924. The main part of the lecture was about the height of the Finns and Karvonen thought about which race did the Finns originate from. He seems to have approved 4 races in Europe Nordic (Ripley's Teutonic), Western (Mediterranean race), Alpine and Dinaric race. He based his divisions on Virchow, Broca, Deniker, Ripley and Gьnther. The short Finns he places in the Alpine race, but he thinks that there has originally existed a common proto-race. And after bringing up the subject of prehistoric races he seeks for connections between the Lapps and the Neanderthals and puts the Finns into the short and long members of the Aurignac-race. The previous was visible among the people of Savo and Carelia unless they were Alpine. The comprehension of Asiatic origin he referred to as an old fairy tale, which cannot be upkeeped anymore. The small size, small hands, the color and epicanthic fold of the Mongols point that Finns do not belong to this race. 63 The views of Karvonen were also published in German. It is obvious that the Finnish researchers of the 1920's attempted on making the Finnish research known outside of Finland.

Notes:
57. Kansainvalistusseuran Kalenteri 1909. (Helsinki, 1908), 177-179.
58. Ibid. 182-185. The writing by Ramstedt is found in pg. 180-185.
59. Eino Leino, Kootut teokset. XVI. Sanomalehtikirjoitelmia. The selection of articles was edited by Olli Nuorto. (Helsinki, 1930), 1950-186. Leino mentioned that the interview of Lille had been published in a Russian "Golos Moskvy" newspaper and translated to the newspaper "Helsingin Sanomat" (128/1910). According to it the Finnish nation was nothing but a "cursed race", to which it was irrelevant, if it was under Russia or Turkeys rule, only if they had a cabin, pipe and 50 marks in their pockets.
60. Vrt. Jouko I. Kilpelдinen, Mongoleja vai germaaneja?, 192-193.
61. Oiva Ketonen, Suomalainen Tiedeakatemia 1908-1958. (Helsinki, 1959), 166-167.
62. In the 1930's the work on Carelia by T. Y. Roschier was published "Anthropologische Untersuchungen an Bewohnern der Landschaft Karjala". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:1932:35 N:o 2; A. O. Arho's study on the people of Finland proper and Еland islands "Anthropologische Untersuchungen in den Landschaften Еland und Varsinais-Suomi".
Ann. Cad. Scient. Fenn. A:1934:40 N:o 2; The studies of Niilo Pesonen concerning Savo and Satakunta "Anthropologische Untersuchungen an Bewohnern der Landschaft Satakunta". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:1935:43 N:o 2; "Anthropologische Untersuchungen in der Landschaft Savo", Idem 1937:47 N:o 3; The studies of L. Lцfgren concerning the population of Nyland "Ьber die Anthropologie der Bewohnern von Uusimaa". Ann Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:1937:47 N:o 4; The studies on Lapps by E. R. Nддtдnen "Ьber die Anthropologie de Lappen in Suomi". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn.A:1937:47 N:o 2; , Published in the 50's by M. Mustalkallio and A. Telkkд, "Anthropologische Untersuchung von Bewohnern Sьd-Ostbottniens". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:V:1951 N:o 24; A. Telkkд, "Anthropologische Untersuchung von Bewohnern der Landschaft Hдme". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:V:1953 N:o 30 And E. Kivalo, "Anthropologische Untersuchung von Bewohner der Landschaft Nord-Ostbottnien". Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. A:V:1957 N:o 62; The research of Pesonen on Livonians "Die Somatologie der Liven" printed in 1939: Ann. Acad. Scient. Fenn. 1939:50 N:o 1; And in addition many researches concerning special issues were made.
63. J. J. Karvonen, "Ajatuksia suomalaisten rotukysymyksestд". Duodecim 1924:40, 555, 557-561; The comprehensions of Karvonen were also published in German "Zur Rassenfrage der Finnen" Tiedeakatemian A-sarjassa 1927:25 N:o 6; At the same year Viljo Tolvanen presented in Valvoja-Aika the informations "Suomalaisten rodun alkuperдstд", which had been presented by Madison Grant (New York) in 1917. The Finns were said to be close to the European "races". The Finnish language was said to be proto-Aryan or a phase between the language groups. According to Tolvanen the theory was good for strenghtening the national self-conscience, which at the time was weak. The editorial staff felt the American's presentation to be a pure work of imagination. (s. 102-106).

McOwen
<mcowen::luukku.com>
Finland (I'm a Finn!) -- Thursday, February 01, 2001 at 15:45:20 (EET)

But, nevertheless, as one great philosopher said, all empires sooner or later fall! You know what I mean!

AND I ALSO WANT TO SAY TO ALL YOU PEOPLE: YOU HAVE TO MAKE EVERYTHING THAT YOU CAN AGAINST THOSE SATANIC PANSLAVIC PROPAGANDISTS,BECAUSE THE MURDERERS LIKE THESE NEVER STOP BEFORE YOU DONґT STOP THEM BY YOURSELF. AND ALWAYS REMEMBER: ONLY YOUSELF CAN MAKE SOME CHANGES AND NOT ANYBODY ELSE... TAKE CARE!Ѕ!! THEIR HATE NEVER STOPS BEFORE YOU STOP THEM BY YOURSELF...

Alik
<alek::turk,net>
RussiaFederation -- Monday, January 01, 2001 at 22:15:40 (EET)

YOU ARE NOT ANYBODYS SLAVE!!!!!!!! SO I THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THAT THE THEORY OF "URALIAN RACE" AND FIIN-UGOR LANGUAGE FAMILY IS TOTAL RUBBISH!!!! THE RIGHT IS ASIAN RACE(ASIAN ORIGIN) AND URALALTAIC (SUMERIAN) LANGUAGE FAMILY!!!

I just wanted to help you,poor stupid people,rest is up to you!!!THINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I KNOW THAT THERE IS A LANGUAGE FAMILY CALLED INDO-EUROPEANS. THERE HAVE TO BE A SIMILAR "S U M E R I A N " FAMILY or also you can say URALALTAIC FAMILY!!!!!! I MEAN GROW UP PEOPLE!!!

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